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Bill : Hello and welcome to soft land central My name is Bill Kenny and today we’ve got a great, really great conversation with Sophie Lechner from global commerce education or GCE globe welcome Sophie, how are you today.
Sophie : Good, thank you. Thanks for having me, Bill.
Bill : Oh, it’s so great to chat with you today and I’ve really been excited about this conversation, obviously we’ve, we’ve gotten to know each other a little bit but I’d love to hear more about not only GCE and we certainly want to have a little bit of context for our audience, in terms of, as we get into a conversation around US market entry but also a little bit about your background, I’d be great so if you if you don’t mind maybe a little bit about GCE and then about yourself.
Sophie : Alright, cool. So global commerce education is a company that I founded a few years ago to help businesses from outside the US who want to enter the US market, and I help them with strategy I help them with professionals finding the right professionals, introducing them, and also cross cultural differences so maybe we’ll get to talk a little bit more about that. But it all started because I’m half Pakistani half French and I actually really cherish that sort of multicultural background and I grew up, you know, surrounded by people from all over the world, and mostly in Pakistan obviously but travelled a lot. I studied in an international school went to college in London and Paris, and, and basically what happened was, it was only late in life, that I realized that not everybody is like that, like me, and there are a lot of people that are actually monocultural and that was a cultural shock for me so it became a very important part of my life, especially when I worked for one year with a Franco French company in France and realized I could not, I could not handle it. So I decided from there on, it’s going to be international, all the way. So I worked for pharmaceutical for a while, I decided to do my MBA in New York so moved from France to the US, and having your Census 27 years. And I worked in the pharma industry for 10 years at Pfizer and then more different companies bear etc . So after about 17 years of corporate life I wish I’d realized sooner but whatever. I realized now this I have to just be on my own, do my own thing. And so I started little commerce education.
Bill : Cool, and are there particular industries or stages of company that you most sort of are suited for or most enjoy helping.
Sophie : Yes, so it’s really me there’s two things that the main, the core of my business is really helping companies that have already, you know, some good success in their home market, Maybe have exported to a couple of countries, maybe even have operations in a couple of countries but for whatever reason have not yet cracked the US market. So, you know they need to have sort of a sizable, good enough, big enough team, let’s say so that they can handle, you know, taking care of the home market while really having at least one person dedicated to the US market. In terms of industry, I don’t really have. I have a few industries but what I do really applies across the board. So, I’ve, I’ve had clients from healthcare, medical devices, even farmers that were early in the process, furniture companies get, sort of, it goes across the board.
Bill : Wow. Yeah, very diverse. So let’s get into our topic which is really about kind of dissecting US market entry a little bit and when you think about the challenges that you know you see quite often and maybe are the most prevalent or nagging challenges for market entry, what comes to the top of the list for you.
Sophie : So I see really three main sort of categories of problems. Besides the obvious ones which are, you know, people not planning for long enough, or enough money, which I’m sure a lot of your guests, you know, bring up and you’ve experienced yourself so there’s that. But, you know, in terms of strategy, what I find is really problematic is a lot of people coming to the market don’t realize the, the wide array of strategic options that they have to enter the market so a lot of clients come to me and they say, I want to find a distributor or find me a distributor I need distributors. Okay, fine. That is a very widespread mode of entry, but it’s not the only one. So, sort of educating and you know the word education in the name of my company is there for a reason and you know my, my philosophy of work is really to educate people to do it themselves, while I’m helping them so I usually educate the companies, very much about the different options so there’s four options that are open but also thinking creatively, you know, looking at the market looking at the competitors and really finding innovative ways of sort of entering the market is really really important. So that’s one thing. The other is, I wouldn’t call a mistake but sort of a chronic problem, which you’re extremely well aware of, obviously, is the ability to find the right professionals for you I mean it’s a red ocean out there in terms of, you know, finding professionals and it’s very overwhelming and you know, you see these these these CEOs who are, you know, competent people are managing a company and then they’re looking for a lawyer, they’re looking for, you know somebody to help them with XYZ and it’s like where do you look. As soon as you open the internet, there’s 50 million options and how do you even choose who is the right person. So there’s a lot of horror stories, which could be about somebody being incompetent, but most of the time that’s not the issue, neither incompetence or or dishonesty, although that’s important to you know, test for but just finding a professional that is adapted to your company size your company philosophy and sort of culture, as well as having the right, obviously, expertise, and one thing that is the most overlooked I find, is finding professionals that have dealt with people from your country, because there’s a lot of things you know when you come to a professional you say well I need this you know I need a, well, maybe that’s what you need. Maybe that’s totally not what you need, because in your own country. That’s how it works. I have a great example. Do we have time for that. Yeah, please try it, um, have I met someone who was, was coming over as part of a delegation so she wasn’t a client of mine but she had set up, she was selling a food product it was a Boston River, and she had set up meetings, all across the country with distributors, as I said you know the obsession. And when I spoke with her I sat down with her on the first day of her trip is sort of an introductory meeting. And as soon as I spoke with her I realized, you know, she needs to speak with a certain type of food broker, but she didn’t know those different subtleties you know she had, she, her, she was selling to distributors in our own country was the UK in this instance. And so these are the kinds of things you know. She wasted all that budget and all that time, all those conversations, those distributors like they didn’t even know what she wanted to talk about so you know those, those types of things in terms of the distributors. Now we could talk about the cultural difference that’s like a huge, the biggest. So I’d say the third biggest issue, um, and that one’s like, finding the right professionals is hard, everybody knows it’s hard, um, cultural differences, people don’t even, like, look at them, you know, every time I go to a webinar or a meeting or any kind of gathering of people in the international
trade arena as an afterthought. The last thing that’s mentioned is like, Well yeah, there’s the different, the cultural differences you got of course, you know, that’s important. Nobody says what to do what they are, how to deal with them so that’s why it’s an important part of my program is really helping with communication, differences in how you communicate but also your product, your packaging your marketing, you know, all those things so there is a very long answer but I Yeah, that’s really something I’m very passionate about is helping avoid all these mistakes are so avoidable.
Bill : Yeah, so and just a follow up on particularly the cultural awareness and adaptation. You know, they, the I, you know, I think there’s at least sometimes the obvious things like updating your website, and maybe having, you know, various versions of your website to the various languages, and, and audiences. But, you know, then there’s all the customs things like, you know, for example you were talking about this lady who came over to have all the distributor meetings. Yeah I think of that I go wow, so how did you talk to her about follow up, because that you know that’s something that’s considered, you know, it’s great. She set appointments which is, you know, hard in and of itself. And, you know, the, the, usually the money’s made and how you follow up but I would imagine there are some special coaching because follow up here in the US is certainly different. And the expectations are different than absolutely other cultures, but how did you go from that particular right,
Sophie : So this particular lady unfortunately I didn’t have the opportunity to do because she was already involved in this, in this whole program so I don’t know what ended up happening with her although I did go to one distributor meeting with her and it was painful. So anyway, guys. But, but so that’s that’s part of what I do for for companies that come over is really help them so find the right professional, and then, you know, have the deep briefing meeting with the professional to explain what the company does explain to the company, what working with this company, this, this particular professional is going to be like. And the expectation so you know, things as simple as you know, the, the professional asks you something by email, you don’t have it, well just respond that you don’t have it and they’re going to look for it, you know something as silly as that but, you know, a lot of people I’m sure you’ve heard stories like this a lot of people would say well I don’t know so I’m gonna just go look and then they look for a week, and then they come back and it’s like well yeah but meanwhile, you know, so there’s a million examples like that that’s just a simple little one but. So all those differences in expectations, and in the you know the, the codes, the way that you work the way that you present is also so different I mean, you know, people from, I can’t help but use France as an example but in France you know when you present something your pitch, it’s like well I started this company, you know, 20 years ago because I saw this problem and that other day and I developed this version and that word and the on and on and you’re like, okay, so how’s it going to help me. All right, so you know all those differences they, it takes a lot of coaching. But it’s fun. I really enjoy doing that.
Bill : I got. So let’s dig into sort of overcoming these challenges. So what are the, I guess what are the what’s the prescription then what are the things that you really kind of work on companies with to help some of these issues.
Sophie : So I think the biggest thing that’s really missing when you’re looking at the US market is really figuring out what to do. I mean it sounds simple but it’s what do you, what did what do you do first, you know, there’s all these important things, but what do you do first and then what do you do second and third and so how to proceed. So what I’ve put together is. I love the word prescription, actually it’s how I feel my product is of course Farmar how to use it right. True. But uh, so I created what I call a roadmap, not a very original word but I think it’s very visual as to what I provide. And it’s really taking companies through this process which is between three months is a bit optimistic, usually more six months. And it’s really looking at their situation and really digging into what are they looking to accomplish so not just, you know I want 10 million in three years, but like, why, you know what, where are you in this company and where do you how do you, how does that fit with the rest of your global strategy, etc. Because that really informs the kind of strategy that they’re going to want, you know, maybe they want, they have something that’s so different, they needed to be out there in the market, fast, in which case maybe, you know, you give up a little profitability and you you you go in with a competitor, you know, there’s all kinds of ways of looking at it so we work on strategy, and then I establish a long list of all the questions we need answered, figure out how to move forward. And then I organize them by profession, by priority, and I say okay, The first five professionals we need to talk to or, let’s say you have a food product right, well, what is the FDA thing. Are you gonna want it to be organic, do you want it to be natural, figure out all those difficult, you know, questions. So in that instance, a regulatory professional is going to be one of the first packaging, you need to know how much it’s going to cost to change the package, those kinds of things. So, by sort of figuring out the urgency, and the dependencies. So you want to talk to a marketing person and a packaging person but you need the regulatory person first. So it’s organizing the professionals like that in that sort of a sequence because you can’t just hire 50 professionals and you may need 50 or a large number, let’s say you can’t hire them all at the same time and then it’s gonna be overwhelming, so it’s organizing all of that. And then, for the first few professionals within the package, that’s the first six months is really helping figure out what are the questions to ask how do you you know so I go to the meetings with them, to facilitate that and make sure because there’s so many misunderstandings that happen there, you know, at that stage. So, and then the cross cultural, you know, helping understand like I said you know the the, what what what needs to be different, and you were talking about websites, it’s interesting because people say, Oh, I’ve translated my website in English, okay great so you find a few things that don’t sound quite English and you fix them, but that’s not enough, that is not enough, you have to create you have to have a US person created so that it, it goes, It follows the thought process of an American person. I’ve seen so many of these websites that are in very good English, but, like, why am I going here like that. Right, yeah right. Yeah. So yeah,
Bill : I’m thinking about. I’m sorry I didn’t mean to interrupt but the. I’m thinking about the what you just said. With regard to going on meetings with your clients, some of the first meetings but I would imagine, even just agenda setting, and, and in the closing of the meeting in terms of, you know, here’s what we decided, you know, here are the things you committed to here are the things we committed to, I would imagine for a lot of people, that is a sort of a very new part but but a critical and and obviously, you know, as Americans, we don’t necessarily get that right all the time, either, but coming into this culture, that certainly an expectation is that there are outcomes and we should each have some responsibilities after the meeting, if we’re going to go anywhere. Yeah. Yes, exactly, you know, there’s the guy that’s probably really important.
Sophie : Absolutely, it is it’s critical and a lot of times you know the the conversation starts going and I stay in the background because I’ve, you know, train them before so like you know you know to do but sometimes I have to put things back on track because you’re right, I mean you started going into this tangent and that tangent and I’m like okay so what did we decide on this one before we move. The US is a culture that’s very linear, you know, it’s organized, it’s linear, and not all cultures are like that so you have somebody from the Netherlands. They come in and they’re like, Fine, here’s the agenda, you know, they’re totally with that, that’s good. They’re Germans. Right, exactly. So, now not to fall into cliches, but you know, people come from Latin America or from Italy or other countries and no they’re more like, right, or you have Finns who will sit there and say nothing that’s
Bill : Well and then and then maybe even more focus might be Israelis who might come into the market, or, Russian I mean there. Yeah, yeah, stereotypical, but, but there are absolute cultural differences in terms of how media.
Sophie : Absolutely. And it’s also what’s interesting also is you can’t really say well okay the US culture is this way this way that way. Nothing in cultural considerations is, is anything it’s just compared to. So, if you have a group of people from France coming over or CEO from like you said Russia or Israel, it, you’re, you’re going to end up saying the opposite and you said the day before, if somebody were to just you know, extra up that’d be like what you said the opposite yesterday, because it’s all relative. Yeah, yeah, that’s interesting because some people you have to tell them to be more, you know, direct and others of you well but you can’t quite be this direct you know, they’re not
Bill : Absolutely, so I suppose. Right, exactly, yeah. No, and you’re there you’re sort of role playing different, what else, I suppose, but yeah if you’re gonna bet we’re gonna bet, you know, the various things will happen and, yeah, yeah, but, no, that’s, that’s really interesting. So I kind of probably interrupted your, the process a little bit but are there, sort of, what are the next steps in terms of getting a company sort of prepared so that they avoid these mistakes.
Sophie : Well I think you know with this with this process of the roadmap, already you know working with them closely doing all these introductions, you know, the idea is to really put together this roadmap which you know I put together in a written document at the end but it’s really so they know what to do next, and then after that, of course we can work together and continue that process, but really getting that right is in my mind sort of the best investment of all because you could save. I mean, you know from working in this field I mean you could save months just by finding the right lawyer, right there. As for the right strategy, if you go wrong the wrong strategy, it could take years to change. Or you could just not recover. You know, for sure, yeah, there was a textile company, not a textile company, a company from Turkey who did shawls like big, you know, throws I guess you call it. And she was very excited because she had a contract with a big I won’t name it but a big chain, not a Walmart but sort of in that realm. And after a year or two years, like came to us it was already all done and she came to us and said well you know, these margins are killing me it’s like you know minute so I would like to ask, what are you looking for, I’d like to start selling to, you know, like a look, it’s a luxury product and it was, but, you know, it’s a bit too late at that point so anyway. Do you wanted to sell this luxury product at a you know, 10 times the price in small boutiques which would have perfect been the perfect. I mean I saw the product it was totally would have warranted that. So would have been the great strategy, but it’s too late by that point you know you have an image you have so rebranding repricing at that point that they just they couldn’t do it so want to get it right the first time.
Bill : So, speaking of examples, is there a, an example client, or two, that would be, would be indicative of sort of this worked really well this was the right process and I would imagine there can be a lot of variables that you know certainly timing can be part of market entry, who the leaders are in their, in their adaptability and and a commit to the process, but maybe you could walk us through one or two stories of clients that really got it, got it right and what were the keys that,
Sophie : yeah, yeah, it’s a good point what you did, you mentioned about, you know the personal characteristics of the you know the leader I mean they, they have to be coachable, they have to be but much beyond coachable, they have to be open. It’s hard when you come with your product which is, you know, in certain cases, it’s your baby if you’re an entrepreneur. And here you know that you have to change the name or have to change the color or whatever you know it’s very hard so, and I try to apply this, you know, the Red Velvet Rope policy, try to eliminate clients that are not so open minded, sometimes resistance because, you know, you come to the US market is going to be a huge adventure. Any, any, you know any expansion so I like to work with people for who is an adventure and they’re embracing it, you know, but, um, so that’s the way to that’s the way to learn, really, and to and to do it right and being open to suggestions so you know I mentioned earlier, sometimes wanting to be on the market, fast, and then, you know, maybe working with a competitor. I had this one company that was selling a software to something, how to describe it as pretty much like AR for figuring out how to, how your furniture is going to fit in your house, I mean, everybody has it now but you know, a couple years ago. And they, they weren’t sure where, you know, how to how to get this out, and it turns out, you know, when we propose that they sell it to the biggest furniture, like, Oh, you’re not you know this is what we’re gonna go against them and, you know, long story short, that that’s the strategy that really worked and it’s like a bit of the Intel Inside type of strategy, you know, so it’s like the, the software that is sold by this huge company that already has established clients and you know the whole network and it’s just, it’s a shoo in. It’s very fast, it’s not the same profits but, you know, those types of things are really that that work well if you, if, if the person is open to it.
Bill : Right, yeah, that’s, that’s actually an incredible lead into. I think something that I don’t hear talked about very often in this space, but seems like an important variable, and that that’s ego. You know if we if we didn’t have ego we wouldn’t we wouldn’t, you know, take the risk right so, you know, you need some of it, but but on the other hand if you have too much ego, you’re not listening to customers you’re not listening to the market you’re not listening to advisors and and so on and so you end up having awful blind spots and whatnot, but what are your thoughts about ego and particularly in the context of what you just shared. How does, how does an entrepreneur balance that or a leader balance.
Sophie : Yeah, it’s it’s hard and what’s even harder is when, you know, down the road a couple of years, you’ve got the entrepreneur who’s really I don’t want to say Americanized, oh I mean but like you know has adapted and you know adjusted and learned and and then but. Yeah, exactly. And then, but there’s still part of an infrastructure that is back home, and they haven’t moved with the times you know they’re, they’re still doing things the way they did at home, and create horrible problems, short word problems. So, so, ego, yes, definitely the person who’s doing the, the, the expansion into the US needs to, you know, set their ego aside sufficiently to be able to incorporate, they can take all the ideas and call them their own that’s fine, you know, but, but as long as they’re not sort of stuck in their way, particularly with this whole everybody calls it agile I don’t know if it’s technically the terminology, but really, you know, this this this ability that Americans have that a lot of other countries have a hard time with certainly France and a couple others, to say okay well we know approximately what we want to do. Let’s just try it, you know, and that is anathema to a lot of like French like well what are you talking about we’ll do market research, up the wazoo and then when we, when we’re done. Then we’ll launch you know so. Now back to your question of the ego that comes into play as well. There was one company wasn’t a client but a French company that had a dermatology kind of product that’s very top of the line wasn’t dumb, it was like over the counter but very expensive high end. And it’s sold in pharmacies in France, and came here and they end owner is a very old French company and the owner was like no, no, we’ve always sold in pharmacies we will sell in pharmacies. So, pharmacy here if you’ve traveled in Europe you know pharmacies are not the same thing at all right. And so they were trying to sell this high end expensive luxury thing at CVS and wasn’t working right. So, you know, just having to adapt and adjust and learn and make a choice. You know you want to go to high end and do it this way. If you want to be in pharmacies do it that way more profits or do you want image, you know, so, yeah.
Bill : Pick your path for sure. So, you know, when you, when you think about companies, sort of beginning the journey. How, how would you suggest a company, sort of, and this is obviously a very open and generic question, but how do they navigate the process from a standpoint of, sort of thinking about you know the those first few steps in terms of connecting to resources obviously their various government both on the outbound and on the inbound side government type resources there. Lots of service providers there. Are there some you know some key questions thinking about when it, when a company comes to you that that you wish they asked more often, you know, thinking about, you know, that kind of thing where you know, I don’t know I’ve had in mind a few questions that I you know I wish companies would ask, you know, as if they were doing, you know, good due diligence and so on, but are there. Yeah, things that is as companies are going through this journey to navigate, you know, connecting to, to good resources, you know what are the key, the key things that you feel they, they should be looking for.
Sophie : Yeah, it’s a great question. You know the thing that comes to mind is, I’m already always amazed each time is, you know, wondering, like, I wish they would wonder more about what the customer here wants. You know, it seems pretty. It seems pretty basic but no, because something had sold has sold really well. In France, and maybe even China and maybe even, you know, like, it doesn’t mean it’s going to sell well here. And so, you know, it’s a very general statement to say that but it’s really something that I just amazes me that. And then the other thing is competition so a lot of times, um, yeah, so there’s two things, technical advantage or benefit and then and then competition so a lot of companies think you know, well we’ve sold really well in our country, even though all those big American competitors were there and we beat them in our market. So therefore, we’re gonna meet them here and, you know, the local subsidiary of a big American company is not the American company in the US, now you’re the outsiders, so I’m really under estimating, but you know, underestimating the competition, I don’t mind because that’s, I’m here to help you figure it out, but some people just don’t want don’t want to even look. And that’s scary. It’s like well you don’t want to learn what the competitors are doing. Maybe that would be important, you know, to figure out what to do. And then the other thing that I find is a big problem, often, is the importance but on the quality of the product. So, if you already know. So the product is really superior. That’s great, but it’s very hard to swallow, talking about egos, you know, it’s hard to swallow that. Well, yeah, but maybe the consumer doesn’t care that it’s so much superior, or maybe they care about other benefits, maybe they value the convenience, and your competitor has better convenience and so maybe your technical advantage is not so important. So those are some things that are, you got to go back to the drawing board and really help put things because a lot of times, the companies come and they have all these ideas already, and they’ve, they’ve figured out in their minds they want a distributor and they want to be in the luxury, you know, whatever. They have these ideas and you have to sort of make them go back and, you know, analyze what it what they actually really really want is like coaching, right, sorry coaching them through.
Bill : I swear to you, I would imagine at times, you know there. Yeah, but I guess my reference here is it’s, it’s really hard to to talk somebody out of an idea, unless they frame it or can ball to frame it more as a hypothesis. And you guys, certainly coming from the clinical world. Yeah, that’s probably a whole experimentation process probably very familiar but do you. Is that part of the processes, you know, you know, okay here’s, here’s our thesis we’re coming in with these assumptions, and you know and reframing it so that instead of, you know these, whatever those assumptions are as being held as fact they’re really held as this is our first iteration, and here are the here’s the roadmap to test these assumptions and then we’ll yes you do it, no matter, we’re 100% sure they’re not 100% Right, I mean that’s the one thing. Oh, and so I’m wrong, like Yeah, yeah and yeah so how do we, What’s the pathway to developing greater certainty.
Sophie : That’s a very very important conversation or conversations usually. And I have to say over the years I have to understand that that you need to get me as a, you know, advisor need to go to where they are and sort of take them, you know, gradually, so there’s a lot more of the coaching approach that has entered my, my way of working over the years. Yeah, hopefully I am involved. So, um, so yeah it’s, it’s, you know, you have to phrase it differently and usually one of the first things that I just doing is, is, you know it’s a small validation audit and and it’s really a number of interviews, and you know you can present it as to validate what you’ve said so. Okay, so that you’re not disagreeing, and then you let the interviewees do work for you. Right, drive, drive the decision right. I mean, you know, you ask the questions and you’re just verifying and then you know that that allows you to, to bring a different hypothesis or to question it, but it’s not just you as the advisor doing that it’s you know you’ve got some backing from some people and then you say okay well we’ll research this more but you know it’s um, that’s where having someone who’s willing to listen and willing to explore makes all the difference. It really does.
Bill : And probably has the experience to know, and maybe they’ve entered other European markets or other Asian markets or whatever and they variance to know that it quite often doesn’t end up the way it started and how do we get, how do we get to that right road as quickly as possible.
Sophie : Yeah, yeah. And in fact, you know I used to work a lot with startups and companies that were just you know either, supposedly born global or, You know, are doing the US expansion while they were started and you know that just that, just to, they need help, but I’m not the right person to help them early stage, yeah it’s it’s it’s really hard, you have to have somebody who understands that it’s going to be complicated. So, you know, they need me to help
Bill : understand that. So, kind of a final topic area and that is, you’ve been a part of soft land partners for probably the last four or so months and we’re fully so six or so months old is Nord Yeah Yeah. How’s it going so far what What comments or any.
Sophie : Yeah, well it’s it’s it’s it’s great to finally, you know, as we said you know in my in our first conversation together, it’s great to finally have a group of people who have the same objective of helping these, I want to call them four people but really he’s, he’s four CEOs that are pulling their hair out and you know, not knowing what you know and so many obstacles and difficulties and as we know you know sad stories of, of having misled, you know, a lot of times. So, it’s very exciting to be part of a group of people that have the same ethos and you know we’re all working the same direction, and we’re all coming at it in different ways. So it’s fascinating to hear, you know you’re specialized in trade shows and, In fact, I have a lot of conversation I want to have with you about that, you know, cultural differences when you come to a trade show. That’s a huge training that I gave you know on that. So, and so the the networking has been great and I’ve already received and given a couple of you know referrals and wherever it leads but having that group is is great I’m looking forward to seeing what we accomplish I mean it’s very nascent right, but
Bill : everything starts somewhere right
Sophie : yeah exactly so it’s gonna be exciting to see how we can federate all of our, you know, knowledge and care.
Bill : That’s right. Well, it’s so cool to have you to really learn more about what you’re doing and certainly to have you in the community and all your incredible source and resource for companies entering the US but any, any final words at all any words of wisdom you want to make sure people know. Um, well, I wish I had prepared a little nugget for you here, but just look at it as an adventure, you know, if I’m speaking to people who want to enter the US market. Adventure just, just go for it. Just get help. The adventure not only means excitement but also the fact that maybe today may be a little different than you were expecting and the ability, chances are yet to shift and adapt and all that so yeah that’s in the best way for folks to get a hold of you certainly will put contact info in the, in the contacts but, or in any other preferred and
Sophie : the best is to email me or you, I’ll share with you my, my booking link so if people want to have a call with me or something like that but yeah emails easier to I am on LinkedIn as well but. Yeah,
Bill : Well such a pleasure Sophie, like to hear more, not just about what you’re doing but the great work that you’ve been doing to help companies, and certainly I’d encourage our audience to connect with Sophie asked her questions, trick questions, math questions, whatever. And, and certainly, make sure to follow us on whatever channel you’re listening so that you can hear all of our next episodes, but yeah, thank you again. It was great.
Sophie : Thank you very much, bill. Yeah, fun conversation, right, you way to get.
Bill :Thank you