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Bill: Welcome to the soft land central podcast, your home for market entry knowledge and resources. softland Central is brought to you by soft land partners, an online marketplace to help you find best fit resources for your market entry. Find them at softlandpartners.com
Bill: Hi, and welcome to the next episode of soft land central the hub of market entry. And we are today gonna focus on an update on US immigration reform. And we are just privileged to be joined by two experts in the field, Sophie Alcorn and Jonathan Grode. Welcome to both of you.
Sophie : Thank you.
Jonathan : Thank you.
Bill: It’s so great to have you. So Sophie’s on the west coast, she’s in San Francisco, Jonathan’s on the east coast. He’s in Philadelphia. So really kind of getting some great perspectives here. So Sophie, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and Alcorn law,
Sophie : Sure, I would love to. It’s so great to be here with you. Thank you, Bill, for having us. And Jonathan, it’s always great to get to spend time with you and chat. And just a little bit of background, I’m a second generation US immigration lawyer. I’m the daughter of an immigration lawyer and an immigrant from Germany. So I grew up with this in my blood. I’m a California State Bar certified specialist in Immigration and Nationality law. I’ve been practicing for about 11 years now. And I found out Alcorn five years ago out of my kitchen, I bootstrapped it to a team of about 15. And our focus is on helping rapidly scaling technology companies, startup founders, inventors, investors and their families find ways to legally live and adult their visions in the United States. So it’s really great to be here and have the opportunity to share. Thank you.
Bill: That’s so cool. Well, and How about yourself? Jonathan, can you tell us a little bit about yourself in green in Spiegel?
Jonathan : Sure. My name is Jonathan grown, the managing partner of green and speakers’ us operations, we’re actually a Canadian firm headquartered in Toronto. And about a decade ago, I founded the US practice and have been building it up. You know, it’s interesting to listen to Sophie, because of where she’s based and having a heavy work within the tech community. You know, whilst the East Coast is growing with our startups and our startup community, I think we lag behind a little bit, though, and that relationships, I can see how your firm was born out of that we deal more with as far as this arena goes with companies expanding from Europe, taking existing enterprises, helping them with on entry strategies, doing cross border work between Canada and the United States. But really, we’re a full service immigration firm, we do a lot of work on policy and you know, compliance types of stuff as well as your, your visa work. But I think one thing that Sophie and I share, and why I love hanging out with Sophie, if I can be honest with you, is there’s nothing more exciting than helping a new company get off the ground. I mean, there really is, it’s so rewarding to be there at base to be there, when you see an idea in its infancy, to like get excited about somebody else’s vision, and play a part in facilitating that so that they can do what they’re meant to do. You know, our roles as attorneys, regardless of its immigration or different field, is to facilitate growth when you’re in a transactional practice. And Sophia and I met through soft landing partners and like, we’ve just had an instant friendship and camaraderie and we share a very similar vision. So I can think of nobody better to partner with to talk about what’s going on in immigration law than you my friend.
Sophie : Thank you. This is gonna be fun.
Bill: That’s so awesome. So, so cool. So yeah, obviously there are a lot of subjects within immigration reform. And thank you both for your kind of interest in keeping the community up to date. And as we talked about, before we hopped on here, this might be appropriate that we kind of update once a quarter simply because it’s a fairly dynamic field. But the first topic we want to hop into Jonathan, I think this one is kind of right up your alley is to talk a little bit about the national interest exceptions. Do you want to maybe first tell us what they are and kind of what’s, what’s going on there?
Jonathan : Well, so as I like to remind people, even though the calendar year turns and we have a lot of great momentum in 2021, the virus is not missing. And every country has different regimes and restrictions on how they’re handling international travel during times of COVID. Whether it be a quarantining or testing protocol, like you see in Canada, mandatory hotel stays like you see in Australia, or what the United States has is which is blanket bans on people coming from certain countries if they were in that jurisdiction withIn the last 14 days, so we have right now, for the UK, Ireland, the EU Schengen zone, China, Brazil and South Africa, a rule that says if you are in those countries within the last 14 days, you cannot enter the United States. And regardless of where you’re allowed to travel, you need a negative test within the past 72 hours. Now, what’s fascinating from a legal perspective is the mechanism to get around that 14 day hold is called a national interest exception. And you have to apply at the embassy that has jurisdiction over where you reside. And you have to be able to present one of three things that your role is aiding in the cure against COVID, or the fight against it spread or dealing something with vaccinations, that your job is related to the supply chain of foodstuffs, because if you remember, at the beginning of the pandemic, we were worried about food shortages. So that kind of made its way to the rule. And the one that we use most often because it’s very ubiquitous, is that your role is going to aid in the economic recovery of the United States, from the economic downturn associated with the pandemic. And it’s that sort of business development, this idea that you need to be here to create jobs that falls in line with what we do through the partnership, but also the way that most people get exemptions. Now, what’s funky. And what’s challenging is, is we had this real expectation with the new administration, we were going to see a change, we’re always going to see like a lessening of some of these restrictions. We’re going to see some other executive orders regarding what visas can be processed, hold back. And not to get political. But the legal mechanism is important to understand because what happened is, prior to the inauguration, the CDC came down and said, we feel a 72 hour test before arriving in the United States is the most effective way of dealing with the spread of COVID. The Trump administration’s that? Okay, well, with that we’re going to end these NIE national interest exception requirements for all of these countries except for China. And we’re going to end all them and that’s going to be effective on the 26th. That put the new administration in a very difficult position,
Sophie : Especially because they weren’t talking to each other. There was no overlap.
Jonathan : Yeah, there was very little communication. But what ended up happening is, before the NTP rule expired, the new administration under Biden put it back in place, added South Africa because of the variation of the virus from there. But what’s really interesting from a jurisprudence perspective, and not to get too heavy into the law, is it served as a new executive order, Bill. And as it became a new executive order, they needed new rules, disseminating the protocol, because they couldn’t rely on the old protocol. So these things that we were dealing with for nine months have actually been paused. And we find ourselves in a very funky position now, where it’s actually harder to get the national interest exception today than it was prior to inauguration.
Sophie : So Jonathan, is the backup route that you’re still suggesting just go hang out in Cancun for 15 days before that? Oh.
Jonathan : The expat community hanging out in Canada here, it is pretty large right now. And that is one way around it. You can go to other countries as well, non Schengen countries like Croatia, a lot of people are using Turkey. And Morocco is getting popular. I got like Dutch people in French people hanging out in Guadeloupe, in the Caribbean, you know. So there’s, you know, there are creative ways, but unfortunately, when you really do have a business need or if you’re traveling small children, you know, there’s no way around. There are exceptions to DNA, if you’re a green card holder, if you have a child as a US citizen, spouse as a US citizen, there are some exemptions. But it’s a puzzle. It’s really a puzzle. And the interesting thing about the Biden administration and their executive order, is that they charge the various branches to come up with a better plan within 14 days, which should be next week. So maybe we’ll get something a little bit more tangible, a little bit more predictable, but as Sophie’s expression tells you, we’re not holding our breaths.Up.
Bill: Right. Okay. So is there anything else to add? Do you think on the national interest exception, or is that pretty well
Sophie : Did a great job. And, you know, I just tell people, it’s time to slow down and enjoy the tropics, and have a little vacation. Lord knows we all need it this year. But hopefully we’ll have some more of a concrete Practical process in place by the neck. We check in here.
Bill : Well in Croatia and Cancun all have good internet. So you know, it’s not all that. And
Jonathan : What’s fascinating bill and this is what really amazes us is that some countries that have really been hit hard by not having tourism like Barbados, for example, they’ve created special visa classifications where you can hang out there. They’re like digital nomads,
Sophie : yes, coaster just pass their digital nomad,
Jonathan : right. So like, that’s okay. So as people over here, everybody’s going to Barbados, Costa Rica is an amazing place to visit. But these countries and like, I’ll just give the Barbados one, for example. But for $2,000 for a single individual $3,000 for a family, you can get permission to work remotely for a United States business or anywhere in the world from that country. And what’s fascinating from a visa perspective is you do not need a US visa to work for a US company, if you are not physically present in the United States. So for people that are having trouble, like,
Sophie : We can ask for all of the h1 visa lottery rejects in Barbados for a year.
Jonathan : That’s not bad.
Bill : That’s our next topic. I’m just thinking of all the other topics. So then we have to talk to a tax attorney to figure out or a tax account to figure out what the tax implications are of being offshore.
Sophie :The government trade route to come on.
Jonathan : Fortunately, Barbados thinks the dollars that you’re going to be spending there is worth more than taxing you on your income. So you think you’re okay there. But yeah, part two, let’s bring in an accountant.
Bill : Right? Yeah, the Yeah, well, they’ll sell enough in ROM probably to offset the tax problems. I think that’s the I think that’s fair enough. So Sophie, do we want to hop into the h1b lottery.
Sophie : This is super late breaking news. So we’ve all been watching with bated breath, the whole h1b league legal saga over the last four or five months or style, really for years. But there’s been a lot of litigation, they were going to make the job classifications more narrow. The prior administration tried to raise the wages across the board by about 25 – 30%. There’s a lot of litigation, most of that is kind of a hold right now. But then there was this additional midnight proposal by the Trump administration leaving office saying, Hey, guys, we don’t like the randomness of the H1 b lottery, which happens every year in March, April. The reason we have an h1b lottery, by the way, we take another step back. And it really is a professional working visa for somebody, basically, who has a bachelor’s degree, who’s doing a job that requires a bachelor’s degree, and a US company sponsors them and the company asked if he will pay them. Those are the basic elements like your standard work visa in the United States, Congress limited them to 85,000 new ones per government fiscal year. But historically, over the last several years, the demand has always been over 200,000, leaving people with about a one in four, one, in fact, one in three chance of getting selected depending on if they have the benefit of having an extra chance because they got a Master’s or PhD in the United States. So there’s this annual lottery happens every April. Last year, they rolled out a wonderful new electronic registration system. So it’s just a website. And it saved tons of time and money for employers and made it a lot more accessible. The government’s only charging $10. Now for you to see if your candidates are selected. Your candidates don’t need to be in the United States, they can be anywhere in the world, have any citizenship, everybody has an equal chance. So that’s the H kobiet. But it’s random. And it’s really unpredictable. And that does not give employers much security and knowing whether they’ll actually be able to move their candidates to the United States. So the Trump administration had a problem with this. And they said they actually issued a rule that became a final government rule that forget the randomness, we are going to do a wage based allocation from highest relative salary to lowest relative salary based on the geography of the job, the level of professional advancement and does it was basically a pay to play system that they wanted to roll out. And we didn’t hear much from the Biden administration about what they were gonna do with it and they had the legal authority to postpone any recently finalized regulations for another couple months, but he won the lottery is coming up imminently. For weeks. We were waiting. So the drama ended yesterday, it was announced that these changes are going to wait for at least a year. And so this year’s lottery is going to be random, it is going to be electronic, it is going to happen. You don’t need to offer people the highest wage before in order to have much to in this year, it’s not gonna be that way this year, maybe next year, it will be maybe they’ll try to change it. Maybe they will try to change it, but the medication that will change it. But this whole drama has been fascinating to me, because one of the Biden promises that their immigration reform was to secure and protect American workers, H1B programs, they actually have some alignment with administration. Well,
Jonathan : Sophie, I mean, I think it’s, it can’t be lost on people that, you know, the Democratic Party traditionally have been protectors of us workers. And while we expect like great advancements for immigration, I think it’s not going to be a free for all. It’s not going to be no. But being interesting about some of the Biden proposals, and what we’re seeing, and some of the things that they’re trying to push through Congress is, yeah, people with the stem degrees, the PhDs exempt from these annual quotas. They want to give a faster pathway to permanent residency, they want to have it more tailored to the sectors of the economy, where growth and facilitating visas will create jobs for other workers. And I think something that I’m constantly reiterating and that I love about this country is, you know, one half of all the fortune 100 companies were founded by immigrants or children of immigrants, you know, so innovation proof in
Sophie : 53% of the unicorn, Billion Dollar Startup, founders as well.
Jonathan : Okay, there you go. So, I mean, like, you know, it’s a critical so I think what we’re seeing is a government that wants to be smarter with the way that it allocates the visas. And when we talk about comprehensive immigration reform, there’s a couple points there that we might bring up again. But don’t think that the h1b visas are just going to be start flowing like water. They’re not going to be like ubiquitously available. Like we saw maybe in the mid 2000s. Right. One thing I will say, though, is and Sophie, I’d love to get your take on this. But yeah, I think this year is a great year to apply for the h1b visa lottery. I mean,
Sophie : probably better than any other year.
Bill : So what’s what’s telling you that why, why do you think it’s a better year,
Jonathan : Because of the economy right now, and the fact that so many layoffs in certain sectors, it’s very fascinating, because you look at the tech sector, where 75% of the h1 visa holders have their jobs. And you have unemployment rates that have been pretty much static since the pandemic started. Whereas you have 10-15 20% unemployment. In other sectors, the age would be is used across the board, regardless of area of industry, as long as a position requires a degree in the foreign national has a degree related to that field of endeavor. So because I think the demand for the h1b visa is going to be down this year, we’re gonna see less applicants, which will increase your chances of being selected. So if you’re one of these people that has three years of OPT time, and you’re like, I don’t need to do it this year, I would do it every year. Yeah, we’ll do it anyway, every year anyway. But as Sophie said, the lottery is not a six, especially cost prohibitive mechanism from entering the system, we’re going to have most likely better numbers. So I say, go for it. What do you think so?
Sophie : Oh, yeah. COVID, higher unemployment, less demand for immigrants, higher chances of particular immigrants being selected for your company? Definitely, by the only countervailing force that it’s hard to quantify is the Biden effect of brand America’s brand in the world, and if that will somehow cause more people to buy, just because they think it’ll be here? I don’t know.
Jonathan : There’s some very, like nuanced stuff going on bill that, you know, is probably for the immigration geeks to talk about, but like, some of the stuff that the Trump administration was trying to do is like, cut out h1b visas being used by outsourcing companies. Yeah, like where they would just sort of randomly like send anybody who raised their hand and said they wanted to go to America, they would pop in an h1b visa. Like the top five companies applying for h1 B’s are not Google, IBM and Microsoft, its emphasis and you know, those kinds of, you know, those restrictions that were attempted to be put in place by the Trump administration actually never got to fruition. So to Sophie’s point, people might say, Oh, my God, like, let’s get on the caravan, the HIB caravan, and like, did the US so it is a little bit difficult to break. I think that that’s a great counterpoint, Sophie.
Sophie : quick little tip I want to share, which is that if somebody wants to bring a professional here, and they don’t get selected in the h1 b lottery, there’s this work around like half exempt h1b. And there’s a nonprofit that failing this. And Jonathan, I can give you more detail. But basically, they hate foreign workers in STEM fields. And these workers teach group projects to underserved diverse US student populations. That’s a group project for the company, the nonprofit gives them a five hour a week h1, b with no lottery, and then the company can piggyback off. It’s a way to get an h1b time of year with no lottery. So I’m really excited about that. And I hope that a lot of you my video, I hope that a lot of people start.
Jonathan : Yeah, I mean, there are some other creative workarounds as well, using j1 or visas and incubators. And there’s been some other h1b programs. But I mean, Bill, I guess, I guess the point is, if you want to take a takeaway, just like we cultivate ingenuity amongst our members within the partnership, the lawyers that are associated with this group also do that. And whilst we’re never going to advise you in any way, shape, or form to bend or break the regulations, I think having the ability to think outside of the box and leverage some of these lesser known provisions can be really beneficial. So yeah, by all means, if you have questions, you can reach out to either of us. But moreover, just know that it is still possible to take advantage of this hiring bubble with the h1b program, that now is the time to really get cracking on it. And this is a particularly good year to try.
Bill : Very cool. Very cool. That’s great. That’s a great update the, as you’re talking about the different ways to think about it. So I was thinking, gosh, this sounds so much like the Sicilian negotiation in the Princess Bride, where he’s saying, Well, if you think about it, yeah, this way, then you would have switched the cups, and it’s this whole sort of maxwellian sort of thing. And in the end, you just have to take the step, right. inconceivable. There you go. There you go. it’s inconceivable. Yeah, exactly. So who’d like to tell us a little bit about the the Muslim ban, obviously, that’s been taken down.
Sophie : It’s over and the State Department is being tasked with figuring out some sort of reparations process for all the folks that are affected. I don’t know Jonathan, get more concrete details on.
Jonathan : But as somebody that represented a group of Syrian Christians four years ago, when this went down, and like was literally two weeks of two hours of sleep a night. This is such a welcome change. And I think actually, you know, what’s really most amazing about it, is the language that the administration is using, yeah, it’s really singling a change in approach to immigration. I, I teach a class on immigration, you know, actually, it’s going on this semester, and I’m actually doing a comparative analysis between the rhetoric from the previous administration with this administration, and going from referring to foreign nationals as aliens from this administration, calling them new Americans to saying that our job is to protect us workers to say immigrants enhance job prospects for us workers. It’s a big change in the mental approach associated with immigration. So yeah, taking away these bands, working on family reunification, trying to solve the issues for the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. These are all amazing things. But it’s a diametric change in the way that we’re even conceptualizing what it means to be new in this country. And to me, it’s a beautiful thing that really is.
Bill : It’s heartwarming for sure. Yeah. It makes me think, yeah, we are truly open for business. So that’s at the end of the day, that’s, that’s critical. So consulates reopening what it sounds like there’s a sort of an incremental opening of consulates. How’s that?
Sophie : Gonna go? pretty slowly, a long time to get interviews, they get postponed scheduling month out. Jonathan, I don’t know.
Jonathan : I like it. I liken it to game of whack a mole. I mean, honestly, that is what it’s like, it’s like one concert opens up and you try to hit dawn. And then sometimes you hit it there. I mean, it really, you really have to look at viral load and country conditions. So, you know, somewhere like Australia, which is like next to impossible to get into right now. Right? Like, they they have an appointment, I can get you in there tomorrow, like because they have no virus there. No, and some of the Asian countries are pretty good. But trying to get an appointment out of Europe, trying to do something in Canada, next to impossible right now.
Sophie : And then I’ve got a bunch of Australians hanging out in Costa Rica. And they’re all out where they can get there. From and really hard to find the console
Jonathan : is actually working pretty good right now. They can talk about it. But yeah, it like it’s literally whack a mole is a processing worker. So I kind of like take the approach like scattershot, I’m just going to smack a whole bunch of them out there and see which one comes through. But it’s tough. Logistically, I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a harder time in immigration law when it comes to visa processing. What I when I tell people is like, that’s true, you can’t. Now more than ever, you have to just really level with the people you’re working with. You can be the best immigration attorney in the entire country. If an appointment is cancelled because of a virus, it’s canceled. And the more you can express that and get that point across.
Bill : So is your expectation for that to improve as immigration or as vaccination by country and region is realized.
Jonathan : Technically speaking, as of June of 2020, the consulates are at their discretion allowed to open and process visas. But there was a subsequent State Department memo that came out in the fall that reduced in person staff to 20% across the globe. So it’s really just a logistical issue at this point. I personally feel bad for the people that are waiting for green cards outside the country. We still waiting for people to be rescheduled, they have their appointments cancelled in March of 2020. Wow. A year. And this is like family reunification stuff. So it’s,
Sophie : and there’s a big backlog of things tied to with USPS, they have 1000s or 10s of 1000s of unprocessed applications that arrived in the mailbox that nobody’s taking any action on them and people aren’t getting their receipt notices,
Jonathan : like Bill like stuff out in October, November. They haven’t even cashed the checks.
Sophie : And then they’re like worried that they’re gonna run out of money. Right.
Jonathan : But that’s a separate issue. Right. But yeah, the virus fatigue, as much as we all feel it, the government on the bureaucratic side of things is dealing with an even heavier degree.
Bill : Sure. Well, they Yeah, they probably don’t have is, especially if they’re cut down to 20%. In their offices, they don’t have the flexibility to do as much remote as the rest of us do. So they probably have a lot of limitations.
Jonathan : There’s just like a HIPAA cyber security concern. There’s so many different layers there.
Bill : So let’s shift gears and talk about comprehensive immigration reform. And I guess what are the kind of the big issues, big topics there that we want to make sure get
Sophie : frightening proposals thing would be so good. I think Jonathan, you can talk to the feasibility of all of that. I’m just delighted by the idea that’s out. There’s like ending a green card backlogs. And, you know, like an Indian professional with a PhD might have to wait 150 years in line for a green card, which is insane. And that seems like a long time isn’t really a while where you can pass it on to your children after you’re gone. Right? If you’re, if you haven’t gotten it yet, and we might have a startup visa, and there might be some new like, regional sponsorship of green cards were a Midwestern town history and for extra interest from Doctor. Or Silicon Valley, for more software engineer, and then the proposal, Jonathan, about if you get a PhD in the United States in STEM field, you can just automatic immediate turn to get a card. Yeah. So wonder
Bill : feasibility I mean, not to throw cold water on anything but like, so I 2007 they tried comprehensive immigration reform or under George W. 2013. They had a bipartisan gang of senators that tried to pass him anytime something starts out gang of whatever. In the past. You know, what’s different here is that day one, they sent a bill to Congress, day one. And to me that really signaled a very high level of engagement with immigration as an issue. Look, do I think that we’re going to get a pathway to permanent residency for all 11 million undocumented foreign nationals in the United States? Probably not. Do I think that the dreamers that the kids that were brought here as children will will get will get relief? I do. I just think that the Biden administration has already signaled this, I think it’s going to be a series of bills, instead of one comprehensive immigration reform, going to be some advancement, certainly, on the DACA, I think that we’re going to see an advancement, Sophie, on the numerical limitations associated with the green card Green Card process, especially for Indian foreign nationals that’s been rumbling for years, I think we will see some advancements within h1b visas and that kind of stuff. I do think fundamentally, that comprehensive reform will be a challenge. And I do think even though this bill was introduced on day one, other priorities, like stimulus, infrastructure, tax reform, are going to probably wiggle their way in ahead of the queue. But yeah, I, I really do.
Sophie : And the piece meal approach might be most effective, and especially for softland and our global business interests. The two parties might reach more agreement on an economic center. And you know, here’s the types of green cards and visas we need to help create more jobs for American
Jonathan : people need to be aware of the fact that anything that comes with an advancement is going to come with heavier enforcement as well. Like, you know, the GOP is not just going to hand it over. You know, I think there is an understanding that something desperately needs to be done with the the border situation that we have going on with the people lining up and having to deal with MST outside the country, I think, you know, that kind of stuff is going to be addressed, I think there’ll be a lot of bipartisan support there. But to just sort of open everything up and give status without finishing off the wall or having mandatory e verify. That’d be a tough sell, because these people need things to campaign on to I mean, without getting political, there is a political aspect to legislative reform.
Bill : So thinking about the, you know, just from the, the economic side of this, and certainly there’s going to be a big focus on recovery, probably for the next two years, you would think and so you sort of alluded to that, that that might help prioritize some of the the economic type immigration legislation, what’s your expectation in terms of, you know, what might be prioritize there, and what might get ahead of the list?
Jonathan : Wow. Emotionally, I think the DACA situation is going to be first off, in fact, there’s already a bipartisan, separate bill that’s gaining a lot of traction. So that’s, that I think, is imminent. I am very, very intrigued by what Sophie alluded to as what they’re calling the heartland visa, where individual regions are going to be able to use economic data to find visa classifications for certain industries and certain areas. I mean, one of the things that’s been very challenging with immigration, if you look at it as it’s federal, like Sophie’s in California, I’m in Pennsylvania, we practice the same law,
Sophie : same thing, same rules, you know, but and you have the Canadian element of your practice, and they have a wonderful system based on economic need. That’s constantly changing, right?
Jonathan : Yeah, exactly. They have a flexible, but to be able to have a visa classification that says you know, in Sophie’s backyard Silicon Valley desperately needs computer engineers and in Philly, we need like life science people and to create like 5000, 10,000, 15,000 visas just for that region. And then those people have to stay in that area. Which would be one of the ties to it, I think is great. There was something also bill that was in 2013 bill called the x visa and never made it into a routing rules, but I frickin love it because it’s a venture capital based visa classification where if you have obtained at the time it was $200,000 in venture capital money, you can get the x visa to direct and develop that particular enterprise. And I would love to see something like that come back. Well,
Sophie : I know there’s lobbying for the regulatory of that right now. Yeah. today. So hopefully, we’ll at least the Perl version, not a real.
Jonathan : Yeah, I mean, but you know, there’s also and this is the reality of it, there’s a huge educational component to it, that’s required, because, unfortunately, a large portion of the population views visas as people taking jobs away from us workers. And we have an obligation, you know, as attorneys as people that want to promote for nationals coming and being innovators in this country, really adhering to like the core of what it means to be American and entrepreneurial to say, No, these are not taking your jobs. These people are actually creating jobs. And the economic data suggests it, the multipliers suggest the number of jobs that are created for every foreign national that comes into the country. It’s just there has to be a return to the mentality of the United States is somewhere where you can come and create. Right, we lost that a little bit over the past four years. But it’s so embedded in who we are. Yeah, that I think we can bring it back and having an immigration policy that reflects that as part of it.
Bill : Well, the note the notion that, as you said, Sophie 53% of the unicorns are founded by foreign nationals. And Jonathan, you said, I think it was the fortune 500, at least half of the Fortune 500 are founded by foreign nationals, certainly underscores the fact that we are a land of immigrants, for sure. And, and so it’s great to see the energy come back into enabling that process. So, you know, there are so many great takeaways here. But the one thing that that particularly hits me, is it not only is this a complicated process, but it’s a dynamic process that that actually looking ahead, at least for the foreseeable, you know, year or two looks like it will be maybe even more dynamic or maybe even more favorably dynamic. So, yeah, how do you advise people to sort of navigate the process? It seems like it’d be difficult to go this alone, just simply because of the, the sort of complexity and sort of chain ever changing sort of regulatory issues?
Sophie : Well, I don’t think anybody’s trying to navigate business, immigration without an attorney anymore. So I think that’s a great first step, definitely utilize the services of an experienced attorney, whatever route you want to go. I always start in my consultations with company professionals by asking, okay, where do you want to have? There’s 15 weird visa strategies we could use to support you. But if we don’t know, ultimate aim is through less from a bunch of ideas. But if I can know, you know, where are you now? And where do you want to be, then there’s always creative options that we can explore, to help.
Jonathan : This is why I get along with Sophie. I frame it a different way. But it’s the same idea. Like I think there’s many people out there that say, here’s a visa classification, this is what I have to do to get it. I’m going to live my life to fulfill this classification. And I say that is the wrong approach. My job is to find the visa that fits what your needs and goals are. And I don’t want you to have to sacrifice unless it’s absolutely necessary. You achieving your goal or dream because of the constraints of a visa, we should be able to find a visa solution that fits your goals. And I think that’s even more critically important with the startup and entrepreneurial community. So yes, Sophie.
Bill : Virtual fist bump, I love it. So. So essentially goal centered sort of consultation so that you you fit, you fit the sort of the right solution to the objective. Exactly. That makes total sense. So, again, you’ve told us that you have kind of given us a great update here and also told us that we should have some expectation of sort of continual adjustment and in tactics and strategies over the coming months. But if we asked, Would you come back maybe periodically to give us an update here? Oh, Bill,
This was awesome. I mean, I feel like we’re just kind of hanging out and having a coffee. So as much as we’re just staring at this
Jonathan : Oh, this was awesome. I mean I feel like we’re just kind of hanging out and having a coffee so as much as we’re just staring at the screens, this was really helpful.
Bill : Unfortunately for Sophie it’s a little early to have a cold refreshment but, you know, didn’t want to get too aggressive here on Friday we’re getting close over. We are getting 11am Well, we can skip there slightly later next time maybe but in terms of getting in touch with you obviously will put contact info down in the, in the, the sort of summary here but is there a preferred mode of contact for you, Sophie.
Sophie : Sure, you can always email us Hello at Alcorn dot law, we have a website that has a bunch of info. I have a podcast you can subscribe to immigration law for tech startups, and you can follow my OB column weekly in TechCrunch.
Bill : My goodness and Jonathan how about for you what’s the best way for folks
Jonathan : Telepathy.
Bill : So what I find that works great.
Jonathan : Emails good, we have a very robust blog that focuses on solutions for people you can sign up for that through our website. But I think one thing that Sophie and I share is if you get in touch, however you get in touch, we will respond. And for those of you associated with this organization, we’re happy to give our time,
Bill : So kind, so thank you both very much. I hope you enjoy your weekend. Thank you, thank you everybody who has viewed the podcast today and, certainly, like it, so we keep you in the loop on what’s going on next again. Have a great weekend to both of you and thanks so much for all the great information, everybody.